D. Lieberman & M. Long - The Molecule of More (Dopamine)

Je suis en train de lire le livre « The Molecule of More » sur la dopamine, pour l’instant il a l’air vraiment bien.

La discipline on te dit !!!

Extrait du livre : "One way to study tenacity in a laboratory is to measure how hard a rat will work to get food, typically by counting the number of times it will press a lever that sends a food pellet sliding down a chute into its cage. By increasing the number of lever presses required to get the food, scientists can find out whether their rats have the determination to increase their efforts accordingly. Researchers from the University of Connecticut wanted to see if they could manipulate a rat’s tenacity by changing the activity of dopamine in its brain. They put a cage full of rats on a reduced-calorie diet until the animals lost 15 percent of their weight—for comparison, that’s like a typical adult losing about 25 pounds. After the rats were good and hungry, the scientists gave them an opportunity to work for rewards in the form oBioserve tablets, delicious treats (to rats, at least) that come in a variety of flavors, including chocolate marshmallow, piña colada, and bacon. They began by dividing the rats into two groups. They designated the first group as the control group, and did nothing to them beyond the diet. As for the second group, the scientists injected a neurotoxin into their brains that destroyed some of their dopamine cells. Then they began the experiment. The first experiment was easy.
To receive a Bioserve treat, each rat had to press the lever only one time. Sinceessentially no work was needed—no tenacity required—this experiment established a necessary condition: it demonstrated that dopamine-deficient rats liked the treats as much as normal rats. This was important, becauseif dopamine-deficient rats no longer wanted Bioserve goodies, the scientists would not be able to test how hard they would work for them. When no work was required, the dopamine-deprived rats pressed the lever as many times as the normal rats, and devoured the treats they had earned. This outcome was not surprising because liking and enjoying would not be expected to change as a result of a dopamine alteration. Things did change, though, when the rats had twork harder: When the required number of lever presses was increased from one to four, the normal rats pressed their levers nearly a thousand times over the course of 30 minutes. The dopamine-depleted rats weren’t as motivated; they pressed the lever only about six hundred times. When the requirement was increased to sixteen presses, the normal rats produced nearly two thousand presses, while the dopamine-depleted rats barely increased their presses at all. They were getting only one-quarter the number of treats, but they wouldn’t work harder. Finally, the requirement was bumped all the way up to sixty-four presses for a single Bioserve tablet. The normal rats managed about twenty-five hundred presses—more than one press per second for the entire 30 minutes. The dopamine-depleted rats didn’t increase their work at all. In fact, they pressed less than they had before. They simply gave up. "

"The scientists set up a cage with a Bioserve machine and a bowl of lab chow. The lab chow was bland but freely available—no work required. To get the much tastier Bioserve tablets, a rat would have to make four lever presses—minimal effort, but effort nonetheless. The rats with normal dopamine went right for the Bioserve treats. They were willing to do a little bit of work to get something better. The dopamine-depleted rats, on the other hand, headed over to the easy-access lab chow. The ability to put forth effort is dopaminergic. The quality of that effort can be influenced by any number of other factors, but without dopamine, there is no effort at all. "

loul

"[…] overweight children are more likely to be hit by cars when they’re crossing the street. It’s not because they walk more slowly; it’s because they’re impulsive. Researchers at the University of Iowa collected 240 children who were seven or eight years old, and asked them to cross a busy street to measure how long they waited and how often a child was hit by a car. Although overweight people sometimes walk more slowly, in this experiment weight had no effect on how fast the children crossed the street. But there was a direct relationship between how overweight the child was and how quickly he or she stepped out into traffic. Less overweight children waited longer than more overweight children. Overweight children also left a smaller buffer between themselves and oncoming traffic—that is, they allowed the cars to get closer. Not surprisingly, they were hit more frequently. "

Est-ce qu’ils ont réussi à mettre en évidence le lien entre surpoids et impulsivité ? Sécrétion de cortisol/testostérone plus importante ? Ou le manque de sérotonine peut-être ?

Ils ont vraiment envoyé des gamins se faire percuter par des voitures pour la science haha. Je pense qu’une telle étude serait controversée aujourd’hui, j’imagine qu’elle ne date pas d’hier.

Ah c’est dans The molecule of more

L’impulsivité fait que tu manges plus, et notamment plus d’aliments qui attisent tes sens, donc tu as plus de chances d’être gros
C’était une expérience en VR

Ah yes ça fait plus sens. Je voyais la relation de causalité dans le sens inverse. Que l’obésité entraînait des comportements d’impulsivité.

Ouais c’était possible mais ça a été testé de manière longitudinale et c’est dans ce sens là (impulsivité quand tu es gamin augmente les choses de grossir dans les années à venir)

Super intéressant.

Donc pour toi @Bertrand ce n’est pas le fait d’être gros qui rend impulsif, mais le fait d’être impulsif qui rend gros dans le cadre de cette étude ?

Super intéressant.

Donc pour toi @Bertrand C. ce n’est pas le fait d’être gros qui rend impulsif, mais le fait d’être impulsif qui rend gros dans le cadre de cette étude ?

@Prometheus Yep.

" We’d have more confidence that ADHD leads to obesity if we could show that people develop symptoms of ADHD before they become obese. So researchers from the Universities of Chicago and Pittsburgh evaluated nearly 2,500 girls to find out if there was a connection between unhealthy weight and problems with impulsivity. The lead researcher noted, “Children are constantly cued to eat by food commercials, vending machines, etc., so it is easy to imagine how a child who is poorly inhibited could have difficulty resisting these cues to eat.” The results were as expected. Girls who had problems with impulsivity and planning at age 10 gained more weight over the following six years. The scientists reported that a significant amount of the weight these girls gained came from bingeing—intense bursts of no self-control."

Sinon ràv mais ce passage m’a refait penser à l’article sur la discipline en tant que mains invisibles qui permettent de retenir les grosses motivations pour laisser l’espace aux petites motivations de se développer (Régularité : les confusions sur la motivation et la discipline | Vidéos de Développement Personnel - Fondation MAGister) :

« Addicts crave drugs. They use drugs even when drugs destroy their lives, but most of them know they’re harming themselves. They’re not completely deceived by the chemical. They’re ambivalent: part of them wants nothing more than to use drugs, but there are other, weaker desires as well. Those desires can be strengthened. There may be a desire to be a better spouse, a better parent, or to do better at work. The drug addict may see their bank account drain away, and wish for the peace of mind that comes with financial security. Or they may wake up feeling sick every day, and wish they could go back to the time when they were strong and healthy. None of these desires is able to provoke dopamine release the way drugs do, but desire not only gives us motivation to act; it also gives us patience to endure. In motivational enhancement therapy (MET), patients tolerate feeling resentful and deprived, the punishment of disappointed dopamine, because they know it will lead to something better. The goal of the therapy is to stoke the flames of desire for a better life. MET therapists build up motivation by encouraging their patients to talk about their healthy desires. »

« MET therapists build up motivation by encouraging their patients to talk about their healthy desires. »
D’où l’importance d’être clair sur sa vision #orange

Probablement que ça ne s’applique pas pour l’addiction à une drogue mais de manière générale : est-ce que c’est possible et souhaitable de toujours avoir en tête son but très très long terme ?

Ça dépend de ce que tu entends par toujours. Si tu entends toujours = sans aucune interruption, alors non. Pour avoir du flow il faut se perdre dans du local, et oublier le global. Pour les transitions c’est intéressant d’avoir un système pour directement te rappeler ta vision (quand tu sors d’un flow), mais sinon je crois beaucoup dans les phases de relaxation générale, durant lesquelles tu oublies tous tes projets, visions, etc. Notamment d’un point de vue créatif. Ça permet de se regénérer.
Après il y a aussi le cycling, comme pour les substances psychoactives.

Je parlerais de toute ça dans ma série sur les processus de développement dirigés.

Ça dépend de ce que tu entends par toujours. Si tu entends toujours = sans aucune interruption, alors non. Pour avoir du flow il faut se perdre dans du local, et oublier le global. Pour les transitions c’est intéressant d’avoir un système pour directement te rappeler ta vision (quand tu sors d’un flow), mais sinon je crois beaucoup dans les phases de relaxation générale, durant lesquelles tu oublies tous tes projets, visions, etc. Notamment d’un point de vue créatif. Ça permet de se regénérer.

@Bertrand Tu aurais un exemple de système ?

Oui mon système de meta-mapping (qui sera au cœur de ma formation avancée sur l’organisation). En gros c’est une carte de mon futur (avec différents niveaux) que je vais systématiquement checker au cours de mes journées. La composante « aller voir les meta-cartes » est devenue une habitude pure. C’est mécanique. Comme d’aller voir un site de news habituel, ou d’ouvrir mes mails. C’est comme un phare dans l’océan dans variations. Sur ces meta-cartes je peux filtrer les éléments qui sont marqués avec l’horizon temporel NEXT, donc dès que je finis un travail je vais systématiquement voir ce qu’il y a dans cet horizon NEXT. Les niveaux racines de la carte correspondent grosso-modo aux gros domaines de ta vision. Donc à chaque fois j’y suis confronté, et j’ai des systèmes étranges pour me forcer à lire les éléments de la carte et non pas directement aller où je veux. Par exemple affichage des éléments de la carte dans un ordre aléatoire (pour devoir chercher celui que je veux), affichage des éléments nécessitant un clic (chaque clic révèle un élément, pour ne pas filtrer ceux que je ne veux pas)

Ah ouais, tu as bien optimisé le processus ! Je comprends pourquoi prometheus était hypé par ce projet. Hâte que cette formation sorte :grin:. Tu as fait ce système sur une « application » type obsidian?

Oui mais une application que j’ai fait. Je planifie d’exporter le système de meta-mapping seul dans une app desktop et smartphone pour la sortie de la formation.